Watch: Governor Newsom discusses ‘Donald Trump’s mess’ in Los Angeles

Los Angeles, California – Governor Gavin Newsom talked with Jacob Soboroff of MSNBC amid President Trump’s attempts to militarize Los Angeles following peaceful protests against federal immigration raids. Transcript is below.

Transcript of the interview: 

SOBOROFF: I’m inside the emergency operations center, run by the County of Los Angeles, here with Governor Gavin Newsom. Governor, thanks for joining us live on MSNBC.

GOVERNOR: Good to be with you.

SOBOROFF: So this is, as I said, the Emergency Operations Center. I wonder how you would characterize the events that are unfolding in Los Angeles right now. Is it an emergency? Is it, Fox News is calling it the LA riots? Is it a peaceful protest? What’s happening, what have you seen?

GOVERNOR: Well, I mean, look, Donald Trump has created the conditions you see on your TV tonight. He’s exacerbated the conditions. He’s, you know, lit the proverbial match. He’s putting fuel on this fire ever since he announced he was taking over the National Guard, an illegal act, an immoral act, an unconstitutional act, and we’re going to test that theory with a lawsuit tomorrow.

SOBOROFF: Well, I was going to ask you that, sorry to interrupt you, but Governor, so that’s news. If you’re going to sue the administration, tell me a little bit about it, give us a preview of this lawsuit.

GOVERNOR: Well under his executive order, it specifically notes and under what the DoD did is they had to coordinate with the governor of the state. They never coordinate with the governor of the state. I’ve worked with the National Guard. We’ve deployed the National Guard. We did three plus thousand folks have been doing logistics work and fire recovery work, and they’re fighting the fires — the rattlesnake teams. We did the same back in George Floyd. We have no problem working collaboratively in a mutual aid system with local law enforcement. But there’s a protocol, there’s a process. He didn’t care about that. And the worst part, he completely lied. He said in a tweet that everything is now safe. Everything is fine. Is that the case, Mr. Trump? He said because he deployed the National Guard, the guard hadn’t even been deployed when he said this, it’s Orwellian simply lying to people. Unconstitutional, illegal act. His mess, we’re trying to clean it up.

SOBOROFF: You’re saying that the President of the United States has made the situation on the ground here in Los Angeles less safe. What do you know about immigration enforcement today? Has there been any ICE raids in the city today? Are they coordinating with you on that at all? Have they given you a heads up?

GOVERNOR: Of course they’re not coordinating. That said, we were told at just a recent briefing, just a few minutes ago, there was small activity in the county and not in the city proper. But look, you made a point a moment ago. These images are unacceptable. These kids on the car, the folks that are taking advantage of this, these aren’t peaceful protesters a lot of these folks. A lot of great people out there doing the right thing, but you get these insurgent groups coming in, sort of these anarchists that are in there to create real problems, and they’re just playing right into Donald Trump’s hand. And they need to be called out. They need to be arrested. It is wrong to destroy other people’s property, and it is wrong to create the conditions that only exacerbate this. But Donald Trump, at the end of the day, is the sponsor of these conditions. 

SOBOROFF: Let me give you the opportunity. You mentioned that there are people out there causing mischief and mayhem. What’s your message to those people who are out there tonight, not the peaceful protesters that are out there protesting for the rights of immigrants, but for the people that are doing damage to buildings, to law enforcement [inaudible]?

GOVERNOR: Well, they’re doing more, more than damage to buildings and to property. They’re potentially damaging the very foundation of our republic, democracy is in the balance. I mean, you’re seeing these authoritarian tendencies now are being acted out by this administration. And we’re case in point as it relates to nationalizing, federalizing, the National Guard, threatening now to put in Marines. So I hope these people would pause and just consider — now some of them, they want that kind of chaos, some ways they’re adjacent to where Donald Trump is — but the peaceful protesters, we want to keep them safe. We want them to exercise their fundamental rights. We want to keep those that are enforcing the laws in a respectful, responsible way also safe. But Donald Trump needs to pull back. He needs to stand down. Donald Trump is inflaming these conditions. This is Donald Trump’s problem right now, and if he can’t solve it, we will.

SOBOROFF: He continues to, as always, hit you hard publicly. Just 10 minutes ago, he put out another Truth Social telling you and the Mayor to apologize to the people of Los Angeles. You guys go at it pretty hard publicly, but I know you talk privately. Have you spoken in the last couple of days to the President about any of this?

GOVERNOR: Yeah, no, we talked for almost 20 minutes, and he — barely this issue never came up. I mean, I kept trying to talk about LA, he wanted to talk about all these other issues. We had a very decent conversation.

SOBOROFF: When was this?

GOVERNOR: This was late Friday night, about 1:30 plus, his time.

SOBOROFF: After the protests had started here?

GOVERNOR: After the protests, and he never once brought up the National Guard. He’s a stone-cold liar, he said he did. Stone. Cold. Liar. Never did. It was a very civil conversation, I’ve always wanted to approach engagement with the President of the United States in a respectful and responsible way. But there’s no working with the President, there’s only working for him, and I will never work for Donald Trump.

SOBOROFF: Did you mention it all to him in that phone call on Friday night, the types of raids that were happening in your state on Friday? You know, there are reports that, and video of, enforcement operations happening in ways that they haven’t traditionally. ICE officers going to Home Depots around Los Angeles and picking off day laborers. Did you bring that up with him?

GOVERNOR: The conversation started with the frame of what’s happened in LA he immediately pivoted to other interests and other things that seemed to be more important.

SOBOROFF: Do you think he was aware of what was happening in Los Angeles?

GOVERNOR: I think he — more than aware. And obviously he was setting this up to take these additional steps.

SOBOROFF: This was a setup?

GOVERNOR: Well, I’m not saying — he was setting things up, not saying it was a setup, but clearly they were in the process of moving to these next steps, because out of nowhere just [inaudible] few hours after that conversation, he moves to pull the trigger under this, this construct, under Title 10 and then created and exacerbated the conditions that are persisting today.

SOBOROFF: This is your authority, normally, to deploy the National Guard here. You did it, we were together after the fires and those National Guard troops have been out all across Los Angeles working to rebuild and recover this city. How did you find out that the President of the United States was going to usurp your authority and deploy your National Guard here in California?

GOVERNOR: I just — I got a call from a staffer. No heads up whatsoever. And again, we’re here to support local law enforcement. There’s a mutual aid process. Local law enforcement had no needs. They were not requesting any additional resources. I’ve got 100 now, I have 175 CHP officers, tactically trained officers, tactical teams, to address Donald Trump’s mess. We are here to support local law enforcement, the sheriff’s office, LAPD, but they didn’t need that support. He made this up. This is a manufactured crisis, in order to get under the intent, to start to stretch credulity, and to begin the process of moving inevitably towards a constitutional question and crisis around Posse Comitatus. And it’s, I think, inevitable, that’s where he’s going.

SOBOROFF: Tom Homan, the border czar, said to me yesterday, he did not rule out literally arresting you, nor Mayor Bass if you interfere in his — which he said you hadn’t yet —

GOVERNOR: He’s a tough guy, why doesn’t he do that. He knows where to find me. But you know what? Lay your hands off four year old girls that are trying to get educated. Lay your hands off these poor people who are just trying to get — live their lives, man. Trying to live their lives, paying their taxes, been here 10 years. The fear, the horror, the hell is this guy? Come after me, arrest me. Let’s just get it over with. Tough guy, you know, I don’t give a damn. But I care about my community. I care about this community, the hell are they doing? These guys need to grow up. They need to stop and we need to push back. And I’m sorry to be so clear, but that kind of bloviating is exhausting. So Tom, arrest me. Let’s go.

SOBOROFF: The perception is there’s a lot of theatrics happening out there. Mayor Bass told me that she spoke directly to Tom Homan, has he reached out to you, have you reached out to him?

GOVERNOR: No, no. No.

SOBOROFF: No communication whatsoever?

GOVERNOR: No, no. Direct communication and back and forth with Susie Wiles, and with the President in a phone conversation.

SOBOROFF: There obviously are pockets of violence out there on the streets. How concerning is the violence in Los Angeles tonight? How widespread is it, too? You’re here, you’re monitoring it.

GOVERNOR: We’re worried about it. Yeah, we’re monitoring it, I think that’s self-evident, we’re here with LAPD, we’re here with the Mayor, we’re here with the Sheriff’s Department, my National Guard — that we’re still working in command with — and others, monitoring the situation in real time, providing whatever resources we could possibly need. We’re calling out the violence period, full stop. It’s wrong, and we’re calling for the President of the United States to rescind his order so that he can clean up his own mess.

SOBOROFF: Stephen Miller, other people have used the word insurrection about the activity on the streets of Los Angeles.

GOVERNOR: Yeah this,  I mean this is just — they’re trying to incite violence. They’re trying to impose the kind of rhetoric that only makes the conditions worse, that quite literally put people’s lives at risk, and they’re intentionally and knowingly doing that.

SOBOROFF: All of this is about immigration enforcement — 

GOVERNOR: [seems to take objection to that being the full story]

SOBOROFF: and that type of — well go ahead, feel free to disagree!

GOVERNOR: No I mean, I know — and I don’t mean to cut you off — I think it’s about something much more. This is about authoritarian tendencies. This is about command and control. This is about power. This is about ego, my way or the highway. This is a consistent pattern of practice, of recklessness. This guy has abandoned the core principles of this great democracy. He is threatening to, what, go after judges he disagrees with, cut off funding to institutions of higher learning. He’s on a cultural binge. He’s rewriting history, censoring historical facts. I mean, it’s — this is all, this is something completely different, and this is part of that ongoing play that is unfolding in front of our eyes. It is a serious moment under the guise of immigration, but it’s much deeper than that.

SOBOROFF: You know, I’ve reported with and about you throughout your tenure here, I’ve not seen you as angry as I feel like I’ve seen you here. Do you think that there’s a way out of this? Where does this go from here? What happens —

GOVERNOR: Well there needs to be. He needs to stand down. The President of the United States needs to stand down. He needs to rescind this order, and we’ll work together to clean up his mess.

SOBOROFF: Did he respond? You asked for him to rescind the order earlier today. Did they respond at all?

GOVERNOR: Of course not, no. More lies and statements. Look, again, you’ve seen me out there in the tarmac with the President. We had a very cordial conversation on Friday night. I’m not looking to find a crowbar to put in the spokes of his wheels every day. Yeah, we’ll stand tall and firm in terms of defending our values. But I want to find areas where you can work together, but you go after vulnerable communities, you go after kids — I was just down in Compton School District Three days ago, and they were talking to me about this four year old kid. I don’t even know where she is. This is a serious moment. The hell is going on? Threatening real people. These are friends. These are people we know, members of our community, destroying industries in the state. You claim to care about ranchers and farmers?  You care to claim about construction industry? I mean, these are the folks that you’re going after in the most uncivil and indecent way, and that’s where I have a problem. I have no problem going after criminals. We’ve coordinated and collaborated with ICE, over 10,000 transfers that have been part of my administration. So I don’t need to be lectured by these guys that we don’t coordinate and collaborate on violent criminals.

GOVERNOR: California state prisons does hand over inmates to ICE.

SOBOROFF: Yes, and my legislature with respect, it’s not an indictment, but I’ve had to veto legislation for them to try to stop me from using that authority. So when these guys say we don’t go after criminals, again, they’re lying, and they are knowingly lying.

SOBOROFF: What’s your message to the people that are out there protesting for the rights of immigrants? Do you want to see those protesters continue to be out on the street and protest these actions by the Trump administration?

GOVERNOR: I just want them to be safe. And I just, I want folks to know that are thinking about going out there, just be safe.

SOBOROFF: Do you support them?

GOVERNOR: Of course I support them. I love —  I mean, protests are the foundation of this democracy, it’s what makes this country great, and that needs to persist. And right now people need to come out, but — we need to be mindful of the toxicity of this moment, and then we have to deal with these elements that are coming in that are intentionally trying to take advantage of this in a way that only aids and abets Donald Trump. And this is what he was counting on, and we’ve got to push back, and we’ve got to be careful. At this moment, I pray that people are cautious and careful at this moment.

SOBOROFF: You know, we talked about this is in some measure about immigration, in some measure it’s about democracy. Do you believe, some people have said that this is an attempt at distraction from, maybe the matters with Elon Musk back in Washington. You know, why did this happen now, in other words?

GOVERNOR: I mean, he’s always — he’s a master of distraction. He’s, you know, he’s the commander of chaos. That’s what Donald Trump does. If he(?) moves this direction, move that direction. I mean, look, this guy is what, 90 days, 90 beautiful deals? How many deals? Zero. I mean the UK, what? Give me a break. I mean, Elon Musk is, you know, the sycophant of sycophants, as it relates to this love relationship that he had with the president of the United States, said it exactly right. We’re likely in a recession the second half of the year because of the recklessness of this tariff policy under this administration. He’s just settled our kids and grandkids with two and a half trillion dollars of debt to get billionaires and corporations a tax break that they’re not even asking for. Of course, he’s trying to distract us.

SOBOROFF: I have a feeling there’s a pretty good chance that in the White House there might be a television on and he might be watching us right now.

GOVERNOR: Well I hope so, yeah, he can learn something.

SOBOROFF: What might you say to him? If you — I’ll give you the floor. You have the opportunity. What you weren’t able to say to them on that phone call or calls that he hasn’t taken today.

GOVERNOR: Just, I mean, where’s your decency, Mr. President? Stop. Rescind this order. It’s illegal and unconstitutional. And I said it, I’ll say it again — it’s immoral. You’re creating the conditions that you claim you’re solving, and you’re not, and you’re putting real people’s lives at risk. This is a serious moment, and it requires serious leadership, and it’s time for you to be a commander in chief of the United States of America, and I will have your back if you want to work in a relationship of trust and truth in the spirit of our founding fathers. But you come after poor kids — you come after families — we will do everything in our power to stand up and stand in your way.

SOBOROFF: Governor Gavin Newsom, what time you filing the lawsuit tomorrow?

GOVERNOR: Very — early in the morning. I’d love to do it tonight, but they, we got lawyers working on the brief.

SOBOROFF: Governor Gavin Newsom, thank you for being here live on MSNBC. I appreciate it.

GOVERNOR: Thanks for having me.